I've been thinking about this lately myself. I have come to believe there are different levels of success in a startup, which could also be viewed as milestones in a way. Particular startups will only get to a certain level, but attaining any level is a success to some degree. Perhaps, they aren't really levels, because that insinuates a linear process. You can tell from this rambling that I haven't really nailed this thought down yet...I hope someone can build upon it. But off the top of my head:

Level 1: Actually make something that is functional.

Level 2: Actually have someone test it.

Level 3: Actually have someone buy it/use it for real.

Level 4: Actually have the users from the previous Level maintain their use, i.e. convert to real users.

Level 5: Get to some level of profitability.

Level 6: Make a decent amount of money.

Level 7: Make a lot of money, i.e. from an exit event or just large value of company, etc.

I know this includes financial stuff, which you specifically didn't want. However, I think this is inextricably tied to the higher levels of startup success. Obviously in the lower levels, some people may have other metrics beyond other use, like organizational metrics such as hiring employees or making something that grows beyond themselves, i.e. can be passed on.

That's a great point of view. Although I excluded money in my question, I am aware that that can only be done in a hypothetical world. I also agree that there are different levels of success. I suppose it is very reasonable to view success as a process rather than an end. The various levels of success which you outline makes sense, however I was wondering whether there was a level beyound money (i.e. Level 7 in your outline) for other entrepreneurs.

I have not yet reached a "Level 7" in my endeavors as an entrepreneur, but I have a feeling that it goes beyond "Level 7".

I guess my suspicion comes from observing those that have already reached "success" in the start-up world. For example, why would PG still work after reaching the elusive "Level 7"/MONEY, why would Steve Jobs keep working, etc....

First I just want to point out that there are many different levels of being rich. I know PG said this in one of his essays somewhere, and I have said it on this forum too. And it is true. I know this isn't what you were asking in reply, but there are certainly different levels above Level 7 (in my original scheme) that are just higher levels of monetary attainment. And that is what motivates some people to go from say Level 7 to Level 7a, i.e. they see 1M vs 10M vs 50M or whatever as different levels.

But if I understand your reply correctly, I think you are saying, what is beyond all those monetary levels? That is, assume you reach a monetary level that is enough for you financially, what is beyond that? (This is why I just stopped at Level 7 in my scheme btw.)

Having achieved some degree of Level 7 myself, all I can say is that startups are what I like to do (at least for now). I want to start all over again and climb up the Levels because each level is rewarding to me its own right. A different project brings different users and solving different needs, and I guess I just like that. So in this scheme, I guess I think of it sort of as a reset for myself; not a circle exactly, but a new path.

Other things beyond Level 7 are charity, prestige/celebrity, and doing things with bigger impact. Steve Jobs is obviously a celebrity, and I would assume he sees that as part of his success. PG seems to be in the bigger things category, hoping that YC will really change the world in a big way. Maybe he can jump in here and speak for himself though. I remember an article on here a while back (but can't find it right now) about what people do after exit events. It had these categories, but it was a little more thought out, if I recall correctly. Maybe someone can provide that link.

Changing the way people work or behave - for the better - or give them more understanding about things they can change.

- Meetup.com is getting people out and into social situations with lots of benefits - Google maps helps people to find things more quickly without getting lost - Ebay and Craigslist changed the whole value structure of entire classes of goods and enabled a lot of people to do useful work and earn money they couldn't have before. - Reddit and related sites are the office-worker's version of talk radio. I'm thinking they're going to have a noticeable affect on politics, hopefully for the better (besides creating a significant drop in productivity of the average programmer.) - Google.

I'm not sure how social networking sites fit in all of that.

But the revolution isn't anywhere near over yet. - Government http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/07/why_congress_ne.ht... - Medicine - Portable medical records, better understanding of outcomes and genetics can make us all healthier. - Business - People waste way too much time in offices moving data from one place to another and then trying to balance back to the original. Businesses go broke and partners sue each other because they didn't understand or keep track of or share information. People waste money and time because they didn't understand trends unfolding around them.

And there's a lot more.

And then there's all that money, too.

Well, if you can change the way people behave, you're beyond success. You have the ability to literally change the world. That's god-like. That transcends success.

When you start hearing "How did you do it?" If you gotta ask, then you are clearly not.

can you elaborate on that?

You've succeeded once people start asking you how you succeeded.

That may be one of the indicators (and a shallow indicator at that) of success, but I'd be hard-pressed to use it as a threshold or a point of satisfaction in terms of success. Wouldn't a start-up have much more meaning to a founder? Normally, when one comes up with an idea, it addresses a need in the world or a better way to do things.

Others have asked me for advice, but in no way do I feel that I have accomplished my mission. There are greater and more substantial objectives other than being asked advices or receiving praise.

My question was, what is 'success'?

OK, then success is something that is very personal. You've gotta define it for yourself. I wonder if you're undergoing an existential crisis, having succeeded at some superficial or not so superficial level but feeling there has to be something more out there that you're missing. There's nothing more out there. Life is only what you make it, just like success.

To some people, success is raising a happy family. To others, it is making manager or director or executive as a cog in a Fortune 500 machine. Most of us here want to start a successful company and make a nice profit or reach a liquidity event.

I would consider myself having succeeded if I can do any or all of the following:

1: Make the GUI that I outlined in my first YC application, an interface intended to make the internet really easy to use for non-traditional users of computers.

2: Cure a major illness or create a major technological breakthrough through my own research lab.

3: Take over Equatorial Guinea.

I suppose one can interpret my question as a bout with "existential crisis". Defining 'success' in the framework of an entire life is more of a philosophical exercise, which I'd rather not go into as of yet.

"1: Make the GUI that I outlined in my first YC application, an interface intended to make the internet really easy to use for non-traditional users of computers." The latter was a great answer and it was the sort of answer I was looking for.

I simply believe that there can be a greater objective in a start-up than a simple exit event. I think eBay was a success cause it had a large impact on shopping online and in fact created an entire new market; Amazon pretty much legitimized online shopping; Hotmail brought web-based email to the masses; TripAdvisor introduced reliable, user-generated opinions for all things related to travel, etc.

I personally believe that a start-up's impact on society and/or business is more important than anything else.

Why Equatorial Guinea?

It's a target that Western governments want to fall and it has an enormous amount of oil for its small population,

> My question was, what is 'success'?

When women want you while before they never paid attention to you, your startup has been a success.

Set a goal. Reach it. You are successful at that. That is the broadest def you can get.

Success is when you've significantly improved your users' lives. Great success is when you do this with tons of users. Marlboro is a failure. Wikipedia is a great success.

Marlboro is not a failure. It improved the lives of hundreds of millions of people by helping them live the dream of being a handsome cowboy while they rode the subway to work.

My interpretation of success is when a client/user says, 'Thanks, it works great!' or 'Great job!'

Hearing that sincerely puts a smile on my face and makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside

Does that warm and fuzzy feeling pay the bills every month? =)

In all seriousness, I agree that having happy clients is a strong indicator of success. But for myself, success is more than just being at the front of the pack.

Success is having the satisfaction of knowing you put out your full effort (and then some). Success is personal struggle and personal growth, regardless of the problem or project.

As far as I can tell if a warm and fuzzy feeling pays your bills, you are probably going to jail.

A lot of the comments seem to focus on influencing the lives of lots of users. That would pretty much cut out the entire Enterprise startup category wherein a few 1000 IT admins are enough to take a company to profitability. Of course, employees of the company end up becoming indirect users. As to what defines success, the following quote works well for me:

"When all is said and done, the journey is the reward." - Randy Komisar

As a business, I tend to think success has to have SOME connection with revenue/profit... Unless you want to bet your success on your ability to sell a profitless venture.

I'd say when you have customers who want to keep being customers is a pretty good measure of success. Customers are the people who pay the bills... So if you have a free service, it means advertisers who are reaching an audience they care about and getting a good return on their investment.

I find the emphasis on 'users' to be a bit too simple, and decidedly not very bubble-proof. It's probably also important to qualify who your users are and how much you know about them. 100,000 users that you have no information about aren't very valuable.

Success is defined by the goals you set for your startup. Some people may create a startup in hopes to match their current salary at their "real job", so that they can quit. Once that goal is attained they consider their venture a success. Others have higher, loftier goals (go IPO) and if they don't achieve that goal then they feel that were unsuccessful and thus continue creating/joining other startups and ventures until that goal is reached. One man's failure is another man's success.

If you had/are having fun and don't regret for a minute having left your day job to start your startup, then it's a success. Of course, it's best to measure that at least a year into the thing.

google

Good point! But playing devil's advocate, "IBM!" Touche!

When corrupt old men in Europe who all know each other from P2 meetings agree that you have to be assassinated, then you know you've succeeded. That or if you can make 10,000 people in Silicon Valley slam their heads into a wall and shout, "F^#% ME!!! WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT?!?!?!?"

Or if you can make 10,000 people in Silicon Valley call their lawyers and say "BUT I DID THINK OF THAT..."

Ya I guess if you can monetize an idea 10,000 entrepreneurs had before you than you can call it a success as well. The smug sense of satisfaction will keep you warm for decades to come.

My question for you... do you post here sober or high? And if the answer is high, maybe you should buy some kratom from me. It's much better than what you're smoking, I promise.

STFU you crypto-narc!

crypto-narc?

edit: google just impressed me... it indexed this page for the word crypto-narc six minutes after the post!

wowow.

I just finished googling "kratom."

Now I'll wait six minutes and try googling "wowow."

It took more than a day. I think Google just happened to be spidering here last time around.

STFU you crypto-google employee!

I'm voting up all of both of your comments because they made me laugh and I spit a bit of the Hershey bar I was eating on my keyboard.

I'm voting up all of your comments from now on whenever I come across you because your comment made me laugh and I spit Dr. Pepper out of my nose and now my brain is tingling and I see bright little bubbles popping up all over my field of vision as I sit in the dark writing this.