It's incredible how the Japanese carmakers were able to perfect the auto manufacturing process and then proceed to hold that advantage for what, 30+ years now? It's not a secret how they did it, it's been studied to death, every manner of technology/expertise/management transfer has been tried, and still no one comes quite close enough to threaten their position.
The first time the U.S. tried to study this, they asked for a sample of parts, specifying a precision range, noting that it was acceptable for up to 10% of the parts to be at the extremes of said range.
The Japanese company sent them 3 bags of parts noting: The bag with the full quantity is made to match the provided blueprint, the other two bags contain 1/10th as many parts which are either larger or smaller as requested. May we ask what the purpose of these other parts is?
When they started measuring the parts, they were all identical --- part-way through, they decided that their micrometer must be broken and sent for another --- it revealed that all parts where _exactly_ the right size per the specifications of the drawing.
I've heard this story ever since I was a kid, but never been able to find a credible source. I'm compelled to believe it's no more than a story, at this point.
It was in an audiobook narrated by Pat Morita that I heard it.
The context was auto transmissions --- it was found that one source of premature failures was when all parts in a transmission were at the extreme of too small or too large --- on average, the large/small would balance out, but when it didn't that was when there were early (and catastrophic) failures.
I assume it’s because the other nations’ automakers would rather compete along other lines. The Japanese already locked onto reliability/quality, so rather than try to fight them on something they are already good at, they try to optimize for style/status/performance/patriotism/etc.
Because it requires a populace who culturally fixates on quality.
It doesn’t mean a thing to have a “stop everything” lever if your workforce doesn’t want to pull it because they don’t give a flying fuck if they ship a shoddy car.
It’s a story told again and again with tons of Japanese products.
Yes... a lot of people (Americans I guess since I'm American and that's where my anecdotal evidence comes from) think the Japanese are very efficient. They might be in somethings, but their true love is perfection. They love doing things right. Big things, little things... it's a country-wide obsession.
I live in Japan and let me tell you that the Japanese being perfectionists is also a myth. What Japanese people are really good at is following instructions and procedures, to the point that you see their minds crashing when something goes out of script. Now, whether the procedure makes sense and will result in a good outcome or not is a completely different matter...
hmmm.. I think we're both right here. I lived in a Japan for several years and saw a similar thing that you're pointing out, but I don't think the obsession with perfectionism is a myth.
<bad timing to post this given the current thing> but isreal seems to match japan's singlethreadedness in a single area. Some very high tech startups came out of isreal (waze etc) especially along the maps/routing domain.
To be fair, exactly that level of investment in process and conservatism around change is arguably what led them all (literally every single Japanese manufacturer) to miss the boat on EVs.
Basically, getting to your last sentence: you have the wrong threat model. Making "cars better" is great if what a "car" is doesn't change. But what the market wants is "better cars".
I'd hold off on declaring that the EV boat has departed. It remains to be seen at what level EV uptake will plateau, without major advances in battery tech and EV practicality. Coming from a rather nippy Canadian city which bought a bunch of electric buses, fucked up badly[0] and probably made purchasing more electric buses an untenable proposition for (conservatively) 5-7 years, and having heard from multiple EV owners about the less glamorous aspects of EV ownership in Canada (charging cost/duration/convenience, battery performance in cold weather, skyrocketing insurance and repair costs)... The boat, far from being missed, is still in the dry dock.
Not interested in EV flamery. My point was economic: clearly EVs are a very large new market segment, and Japanese brands aren't competing there at all. That's bad, if your business is to sell cars.
It's really bad if you have a sub-brand, like "Hybrids", which has been completely decimated by the (again very real, even if you don't think anyone in Edmonton should buy them) move to electric devices in the market.
Basically: 8 years ago Toyota owned the "ecologically sensitive car buyer" market. And now you might as well flush the Prius brand in the toilet, no one wants them and selling them as "green" relative to a Tesla is a joke.
I think I’m going with this as a car owner and buyer I would be very reluctant to switch back from an EV. It’s just for me so much nicer and more convenient. I have a few friends who share the same sentiment. It’s a category change and the Japanese automakers (to which I have great affinity) aren’t in the category so there’s nothing for me to buy from them.
A quick google tells me Prius family sales were down 37% YoY in 2022. In point of fact that's a little over three "decimations". Not sure what you're citing, but I stand by what I wrote. The Prius brand went from market-leading to trash in the space of a few years as EVs, and Tesla in particular, took over mindshare.
"Sales of Toyota’s conventional hybrids rose 41% from a year ago, to about 888,000, and sales of its plug-in hybrids were up nearly 90% year-over-year to roughly 39,000."
I said "Prius", and was correct. Toyota as a company is doing fine. Toyota is matching up very poorly with Tesla (and frankly even VW or Ford) in the markets where they compete with EVs.
Sure, but none that compete with an EV. Can you name a hybrid vehicle from any manufacturer that matches up with a Model 3 or Y that isn't shrinking rapidly in market share? I'm amazed that people are trying to argue this point. It seems extraordinarily clear just anecdotally (count all the new Teslas around you!), and the data backs it up.
I'm amazed that you're trying to argue the point contrary to actual sales data. The Toyota RAV4 hybrid is growing market share for one. You can find plenty of other examples if you bother to look.
Which Tesla model does the RAV4 compete with? No one sells an EV jeep. Can you cite me even one crossover or sedan hybrid that is growing in sales? Even one? You can't, because EVs are destroying that sector.
The Toyota RAV4 hybrid is a crossover which is growing in sales and competes against the Tesla Model Y. As for Jeep, the Wrangler 4xe hybrid is also growing in sales.
Instead of making up nonsense you could just look at the actual sales numbers. Most manufacturers issue news releases with sales volumes broken down by model.
Every single Japanese manufacturer? Nissan has been and is doing great with the Leaf. They discontinued recently, but only to replace it with a new EV, not because it was doing badly.
If you look at numbers from a couple years ago compared to now, most of the other manufacturers are way up, whereas Nissan almost looks like they've already plateaued.
I'll admit that "doing great" is open to interpretation, but my point is that Nissan hasn't "missed the boat" due to conservatism. They've had a nice, reliable EV available for a decade now, and you can go out and buy one today. Maybe they'll fall off the boat due to mistakes made now, but they've been on the boat for quite some time.
Having a nice reliable product available for sale while your competition rolls out superior products and not doing anything about it is pretty much the definition of "missing the boat due to conservatism", no?
I just don't like any model of Japanese cars... they don't drive, look, or feel as good as a high end European car. But man do I wish European cars were half as reliable as Japanese cars. Driving European cars is a hobby for me, but spending every weekend to keep them working gets old sometimes.
What's especially annoying is that the high end European cars are ostensibly better made... much more expensive materials, more attention to detail (better rustproofing, cable organization, etc.). They probably actually last longer on average if you maintain them well, but they just have unexpected parts failures extremely often.
Looking at how big a problem with rust Mercedes have I'm not sure the "better rust proofing" is based in reality. Definitely doubt it when compared to a Toyota.
Mercedes are not, but many high end European cars dip galvanize the entire chassis, making them virtually rustproof. Volvo started doing this on the 700 series in the 80s and those cars are still driving around in the rust belt fully functional 40 years later! VW, Audi, and Porsche also fully galvanized a lot of cars, but you need to research to figure out what specific years and models.
Mercedes was a global leader in quality until about the early 90s, but the quality really dropped off, and is markedly lower than other German cars nowadays.
Drive and inspect an expensive early 2000s Mercedes, and then a cheap VW Jetta from the same time period… there is no doubt about it, the cheap VW is a higher quality car in every way. Every bolt and fastener is high grade steel, plated with a corrosion preventative , and then also coated with threadlocker that also protects from corrosion. VW then cut quality also around 2011 or so.
So it’s not really cut and dry, you have to look at how each specific car was actually made.
Maybe they are too stubborn to succumb to 'the race to the bottom' cost (and correspondingly quality) wise, since these things do bite back after longer time than current year exec bonuses materialize.
Or maybe they have different approach to beta testing, see say Zelda come out basically flawless and how say Betshesda or many others can deliver their stuff (beta testing months after release with fixes have 1000+ rather basic items).
