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IMHO we should never be having a conversation about gas vs electric vehicles without discussing the sources (and future thereof) of the power grid energy charging these cars. Otherwise we run the risk of, for example, EVs laundering the output of the coal industry.


These are two separate problems that can be solved concurrently.

The future here looks bright. On the frontpage of HN today is an article on Ars Technica saying the cost of installing and operating new solar power farms is dropping below the operating costs for existing gas power plants, nevermind coal. It's not directly comparable because you'd need to add energy storage to be truly equivalent. Still, it's very promising. I have no doubt that we will solve these problems this century.


The well to wheel efficiency is still better for EVs, even if they are powered by coal , significantly better if powered by gas, and much , much better when powered by renewables.

So EVs are better in all circumstances, and enable continuous improvements by using more renewables.

The existence of more EVs also creates the incentive to build out renewables.

These big shifts never happen in isolation, they need to happen in lockstep.


> The well to wheel efficiency is still better for EVs

You're still displacing 2+ tonnes of metal to move your 70kg ass. Using the word "efficiency" in this scenario is an insult to intelligence


This nonsense and a lazy argument that used to be popular before Putin finally made a really convincing argument that coal and gas are stupidly expensive. It's not a hard argument to make these days. Just look at your monthly energy bills. The few coal plants still operating were rapidly reducing in numbers even before the Ukrainian crisis.

A lot of EV chargers of course use solar panels and other renewable energy sources for the simple reason that that's just the cheapest way to charge an EV. And even if somehow you do charge using coal produced energy because you live in a place that forces you to buy from your local coal burning energy monopolists, you are using fossil fuels at much more efficient rate than an ICE car. So, it's dirty and expensive but a lot less dirty and expensive than an ICE car.

If you think about it coal energy is expensive. That's why lots of coal plants are being shut down. They are no longer cost effective and there are cheaper ways of generating energy. If you are in the business of using lots of energy (e.g. because you charge electrical cars), you are going to buy the cheapest energy you can get. Hint: coal/gas/nuclear energy are an absolute last resort in this market.

In fact people that own EVs tend to also invest in solar + batteries in their home. Those people are using 100% clean energy and save a lot of money. Many companies with EVs in their fleet do the same thing.




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