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Why does the cables trace the Iberian and French coastlines rather than a taking a more direct route?


shallower water


I am not knowledgeable in high voltage transmission, but in which ways does the shallower water depth affect the transmission line?


It doesn't; it affects the cost of laying it. The cable must be anchored to the sea floor at regular intervals and it's cheaper to place an anchor at a few hundred meters depth (the coastal shelves) than at 3 km (depth of the Biscay abyssal plain).


It wouldn’t surprise me either if it helps in some legal situations - if someone runs over your cable in Spanish territorial waters vs international waters for instance, it’s probably easier to get paid back.


I'm guessing it has to do with the EU, but it seems far more sensical if it went straight through and allow others to give/receive as well.


That would make it dependent on the countries it hopped through and subject to their political whims.

The Gibraltar issue crops up every now and then for instance so having control over an electrical connection gives the Spanish government more leverage.

Same with France and the dispute over fishing waters. Only recently France were threatening to cut off power to Jersey.


> Only recently France were threatening to cut off power to Jersey.

Just want to add that it was a bit different than that. More exactly, an English newspaper asked a French official if cutting electricity off was a possibility and that official answered nothing more than "the treaty that was agreed upon does include this as a possibility".

It was never an actual threat or in any plan at the time.


That's not quite correct:

[Europe Minister] Clément Beaune, who is a close ally of the French president, Emmanuel Macron, said action would be decided on within days and discussions were already in motion .... [Beaune] added, "We defend our interests. We do it nicely, and diplomatically, but when that doesn’t work we take measures. The Channel Islands, the UK, are dependent on us for their energy supply. They think they can live on their own and badmouth Europe as well. And because it doesn’t work, they indulge in one-upmanship, and in an aggressive way"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/05/france-uk-jers...

"Reducing supplies (of electricity to Jersey) is possible, but cutting the power to every Jersey resident this winter is something that will not happen and something that I do not want," Europe Minister Clement Beaune told BFM-TV in an interview.

https://www.dailysabah.com/world/europe/france-could-reduce-...

France could cut electricity supply to UK Channel Island Jersey unless a post-Brexit fishing agreement is respected, Maritime Minister Annick Girardin told the French parliament May 4.

https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insight...

French fishermen are struggling to obtain fishing licenses allowing them to keep working in U.K. waters, including in Jersey. They must show they have been fishing in these waters from 2012 to 2016 using GPS data, which some don't have. "As you know, the [Brexit] agreement contains retaliatory measures ... So as far as Jersey is concerned, I would remind you, for example, of the transport of electricity via submarine cables. So we have the means, and even though I'm sorry it has come to this, we will do so if we have to," she told the French parliament.

https://www.politico.eu/article/fishing-brexit-eu-uk-jersey/


There is a very easy way for the UK to solve the Gibraltar issue. The same line of reasoning would also allow it to drastically improve its relationship with Argentina.


Yeah just hand over any territory anyone ever makes a weak claim to just to avoid conflict despite the wishes of the people who live there.

Has your "Z" bumper sticker arrived in the mail yet?


Let’s conveniently forget that Gibraltar is actually territorially part of Spain, most essential facilities are provided by Spain, that a significant proportion of jobs necessary to it are held by Spaniard and that Gibraltar economy is due to it being a tax haven which would stop if it was part of Spain. Oversee territories are a shame on every countries that still hold them be it the UK or France.


> Let’s conveniently forget that Gibraltar is actually territorially part of Spain

it is most definitely not

it handed it over in the peace treaty that ended the war

> The Catholic King does hereby, for himself, his heirs and successors, yield to the Crown of Great Britain the full and entire propriety of the town and castle of Gibraltar, together with the port, fortifications, and forts thereunto belonging; and he gives up the said propriety to be held and enjoyed absolutely with all manner of right for ever, without any exception or impediment whatsoever.

full text here: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Peace_and_Friendship_Treaty_o...

> Oversee territories are a shame on every countries that still hold them be it the UK or France.

meanwhile Spain has two enclaves of the exact same type of in Morocco, Ceuta and Melilla


> it handed it over in the peace treaty that ended the war

The fact that it was taken by force in 1701 didn’t magically teleport it from Spain to anywhere where it made sense for it to be part of the UK.

> meanwhile Spain has two enclaves of the exact same type of in Morocco, Ceuta and Melilla

It’s not less shameful.


as you appear to be some alien from beyond the solar system

on Earth: previously political boundaries were set on the outcome of armed conflicts

Great Britain won the last one against Spain, and gained Gibraltar as a result over 300 years ago

these days we are slightly more enlightened and tend to mainly believe in self-determination

the people living in Gibraltar wish to remain British

giving them up to Spain against their wishes would be an act of imperialism (commonly frowned on in the 21st century)


How is the Spanish claim on Gibraltar weak? They border it, it was taken from them at gunpoint, and it's extremely dependent on Spain for services and labour.


Sharing a border isn't a claim. (France and Spain share a border - which one has a claim as a result?)

Every border is a result of "taken from them at gunpoint." (It's not hard to find folks who had large pieces of Spain taken from them at gunpoint.)

Dependency isn't a claim. It is, however, a tool for taking.


You're misrepresenting the situation. Gibraltar was Spanish for a few centuries ( after the Reconquista), and after it lost a war the UK annexed it. It's not some colony far away, for Spain, it's a part of the Iberian peninsula, and is entirely dependent on Spain.

It's like Hong Kong, in a sense. Land the UK took because it could from a weaker country due to its strategic location, but which is mostly integrated with it's former country in terms of labour and services.


Yes, Spain lost Gibraltar in a war. Pretty much every border was decided by war, so why is that border different? ("we had it a long time" isn't a difference.)

Yes, Gibraltar is dependent on Spain for services. As I pointed out, that's a tool for changing the border. (Blockades are an act of war, so that would be "at gunpoint.")

However, that dependence isn't an argument that the border is "wrong".


the fact that the people don't want to be Spanish or Argentinian is just a small inconvenience to be ignored, right?

(referendums in both were >99% remain in the UK)


Of course it has nothing to do with the economy of Gilbratar being entirely based on it being a tax haven.


“There is a very easy way for Ukraine to solve the Russia issue”. In the case of Gibraltar, the UK can merely bypass Spain for its energy needs.


Are you seriously comparing the case of Gibraltar a territory which was part of southern Spain for centuries, has been a British spoil of war for only three centuries, is physically located in Spain while being thousand of kilometres from the UK and is dependant on Spain for its basic needs with Ukraine? Have you no shame?

What’s next? Claim Ireland maybe?




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