Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

This is a list of accusations, right? This is all pre-trial, so a journalist would want to put the word "alleged" in front of this rather than writing it up as though they'd discovered the undisputed truth? Just checking, I know it's not going to make a difference. Not a fan of Google at all, but I do like to pretend there's a process.


Only a journalist who is worried about the possibility of being sued for defamation really needs to consider using alleged in reporting. The truth is an absolute defense to defamation. If you are confident in your reporting, and especially if you have good lawyers, then you don't need to hedge. (Source: was a lawyer who used to do some of this work at one time in my life)

Edit: If you are just reporting second-hand on someone else's work and haven't done the investigating yourself, then you might indeed want to say alleged whatevers.


> The truth is an absolute defense to defamation.

Sure, if you discount 100% the cost of defamation litigation.


It doesn't matter how strongly you believe in your work.

The law (at least in the United States) is "innocent until proven guilty". Until it goes to court, they are presummed innocent.

The phrase "alleged" is put in to all reputable journalists work because they follow the law.


"Presumed innocent" refers to the government not being supposed to punish an unconvicted defendant beyond what's practically necessary for safety (though reading up on pre-trial detention is... illuminating). It does not mean if we look at Jason Voorhees covered in blood that we all have to say "well, he's not yet gone to trial, so it's really only an allegation of murder."


Innocent until proven guilty is more of a criminal trials thing. Balance of probabilities applies for libel.

I'm not in the US, but suspect it is similar to the UK where reporters will use "alleged" if they're using the legal defence of "qualified privilege" - which allows them to repeat potentially libellous allegations without themselves being sued for libel. In the case of reporting on documents (especially those made public in legal filings) the documents themselves are subject to privilege, so the journalists don't need to use qualified privilege.

Source: passed my media law exams in the UK.


Thank you for explaining this in an easy to understand way, my understanding all this time up until now (I'm also in the UK) was that until allegations get proven in court, they are only allegations! I guess there are different standards for criminal and libel trials


Burden of proof is not identical between a journalist and a judge (or a jury of your peers). A journalist who has verified something to be true to the best of their ability is within their remit to report it as fact.


in this case, the journalist is reporting on the contents of a lawsuit. the journalist is not making any claim to have verified the truth of the allegations, only the existence of the allegations.


They are reporting on documents released in the course of the lawsuit. Unless the authenticity of the documents themselves is in doubt, that's no different than documents obtained from a source within the company.


The "document" in this case is just the complaint filed by the plaintiffs in the lawsuit[1]. "List of accusations" seems like an accurate description.

[1]: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.56...


They don't respect due process with illegal mass spying or bazooka dmca on youtube. They just do it, and you can't appeal.

So at this point, even if none of that ended up being true (unlikely), I still hope it will hurt their reputation badly.


Ah yes, the old “Truth doesn’t matter because we are fighting the bad guys” argument.

Unfortunately a growing sentiment in this day and age.


Oh it does matter. I hope the cops and judges will follow it, I think it's good for democracy. But if they didn't I would not bat an eye in this case. Why spend energy for that ? It's like seing a duchbag slipping on a banana. There is pleasure in watching.


What mass spying and you can appeal DMCA on YouTube


Youtube appeals processes for all (alleged) infractions are bullshit.


Google was part of PRISM, and appeals on youtube are a joke here to pretend you can.


They're not all accusations.

One of the tweets is about Chrome forcing logins to Google products (and vice versa), which has officially been a thing for like 5 years, at least.

This anti-feature is very well known and is why many of us switched to Firefox.


> Many of us What is this us?


The average HN user is more likely to use Firefox and have 2+ Google accounts than the average person. Very straightforward stuff.


Source?




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: