I mean, it's true, but it's kind of a semantic difference. I also served on the IETF Lemonade IMAP group on behalf of Oracle, and although there's no implicit vote structure, one or two committee members can pretty much torpedo stuff, although my experience was more positive, because even though they torpedo stuff, people tend to be more consensus/cooperative driven, and look for common ground solution.
So for example, we were seeking to make extensions to IMAP that gave standards based email something competitive with the Blackberry experience. Some of the proposals specified protocol proposals specified yet another tunneled protocol for real time notifications over 25 or 143, but I objected that deploying this widescale was more difficult due to firewalls, I counter proposed a HTTP based solution which also was shot down. But the group did consider my concerns over deployment, and shipped a BCP document to encourage network admins to be prepared for Lemonade specs: https://tools.ietf.org/search/bcp143#section-6.1
That said, this whole thread really bothers me, because people's attitude isn't "well, Apple should counter propose improvements to achieve use cases, but with better battery/security/privacy", but just "Google bad, don't work with them, essentially boycott the W3C/WHATWG and freeze the web in place. Oh, and let's keep the web like it was 1998."
The Web has changed a lot, people's requirements and use cases have changed a lot. Just take e-commerce or passwords. We all know that sending your credit cards or password credentials to Web sites is bad for security. So login and payments need to be solved and THIS REQUIRES NEW STANDARDS.
You simply can't say "HTML4 was good enough. " because HTML4 meant cookie hacks, HTML4 meant storing your credit cards and password credentials on the server. If Apple cared about these things, they'd make sure to work with Google, and Mozilla, and Microsoft to ensure standardized, secure, private payments and logins were widely deployed and implemented for example.
I really tire of this tribalist fanboyism.
If you think Google is evil or shouldn't control the web, the solution isn't to boycott the standards committees, or to cheerlead a stagnant unchanging web platform (an unchanging platform is effectively a dead platform in the face of changing hardware and user demands), it's to get involved. And therefore, the proper court of action is to demand Apple fully fund their Safari team. It's obvious they's skimping on them, as the accumulated bugs alone are not a philosophical choice, but one based on resources.
So for example, we were seeking to make extensions to IMAP that gave standards based email something competitive with the Blackberry experience. Some of the proposals specified protocol proposals specified yet another tunneled protocol for real time notifications over 25 or 143, but I objected that deploying this widescale was more difficult due to firewalls, I counter proposed a HTTP based solution which also was shot down. But the group did consider my concerns over deployment, and shipped a BCP document to encourage network admins to be prepared for Lemonade specs: https://tools.ietf.org/search/bcp143#section-6.1
That said, this whole thread really bothers me, because people's attitude isn't "well, Apple should counter propose improvements to achieve use cases, but with better battery/security/privacy", but just "Google bad, don't work with them, essentially boycott the W3C/WHATWG and freeze the web in place. Oh, and let's keep the web like it was 1998."
The Web has changed a lot, people's requirements and use cases have changed a lot. Just take e-commerce or passwords. We all know that sending your credit cards or password credentials to Web sites is bad for security. So login and payments need to be solved and THIS REQUIRES NEW STANDARDS.
You simply can't say "HTML4 was good enough. " because HTML4 meant cookie hacks, HTML4 meant storing your credit cards and password credentials on the server. If Apple cared about these things, they'd make sure to work with Google, and Mozilla, and Microsoft to ensure standardized, secure, private payments and logins were widely deployed and implemented for example.
I really tire of this tribalist fanboyism.
If you think Google is evil or shouldn't control the web, the solution isn't to boycott the standards committees, or to cheerlead a stagnant unchanging web platform (an unchanging platform is effectively a dead platform in the face of changing hardware and user demands), it's to get involved. And therefore, the proper court of action is to demand Apple fully fund their Safari team. It's obvious they's skimping on them, as the accumulated bugs alone are not a philosophical choice, but one based on resources.