>I think there is a lot of value in going through the pains of setting up a development environment, writing build scripts, debugging environment issues, etc.
There is but not as the first thing you do. Even I still get frustrated with setting up new dev envs for new (to me) languages. I'd much prefer to just try it out first and then figure out the plumbing later.
>What real problems are beginners actually solving? I literally cannot think of a single one.
That's a very elitist take. Firstly they are solving their own very real problem of not knowing how to code. Second they could have a very specific problem they want to solve that can only be solved by code.
>Most introductory programming tutorials I've seen start off with very straightforward instructions to setting up a basic environment - and this is actually useful in the long run.
It's true but what is also true is that there will almost always be version changes and OS specific changes that break the instructions in small but material ways. A beginner will not have the skills or knowledge on how to resolve that.
>That being said online repls are useful for writing quick code for e.g. testing something out.
Isn't that exactly the same problem they are solving for beginners?
> That's a very elitist take. Firstly they are solving their own very real problem of not knowing how to code. Second they could have a very specific problem they want to solve that can only be solved by code.
It's not elitist, it's realistic. You haven't actually mentioned a 'real' problem they are solving through code.
> Isn't that exactly the same problem they are solving for beginners?
Out of interest how do you qualify a 'real' problem?
It seems there are very few real problems in the world to solve if we are going to be stringent. Also solving non-real problems can lead to solving real problems (ad industry funding bleeding edge innovation is a good example of this).
> Out of interest how do you qualify a 'real' problem?
I assume it means a problem that needs solving, requires a computer to solve and is not just an exercise.
> Also solving non-real problems can lead to solving real problems
Yes, and there is nothing wrong or useless about solving problems that are not 'real', I was mostly just objecting to the usage of the term 'real problem'.
There is but not as the first thing you do. Even I still get frustrated with setting up new dev envs for new (to me) languages. I'd much prefer to just try it out first and then figure out the plumbing later.
>What real problems are beginners actually solving? I literally cannot think of a single one.
That's a very elitist take. Firstly they are solving their own very real problem of not knowing how to code. Second they could have a very specific problem they want to solve that can only be solved by code.
>Most introductory programming tutorials I've seen start off with very straightforward instructions to setting up a basic environment - and this is actually useful in the long run.
It's true but what is also true is that there will almost always be version changes and OS specific changes that break the instructions in small but material ways. A beginner will not have the skills or knowledge on how to resolve that.
>That being said online repls are useful for writing quick code for e.g. testing something out.
Isn't that exactly the same problem they are solving for beginners?