Yes, you are crazy for thinking that. The extra ram is useful for small LLMs and also running lots of dock containers. The very low power consumption makes it ideal for a low end home server.
I use the 16GB SKU to host a bunch of containers and some light debugging tools, and the power usage that sips at idle will probably pay for the whole board over my previous home server, within about 5 years.
Docker is about containerization/sandboxing, you don't need to duplicate the OS. You can run your app as the init process for the sandbox with nothing else running in the background.
That makes docker entirely useless if you use it just for sandboxing. Systemd services can do all that just fine, without all the complexity of docker.
I think that on linux docker is not nearly as resource intensive as on Mac. Not sure of the actual (for example) memory pressures due to things like not sharing shared libs between processes, granted
Only Java qualifies under your arbitrary rules, and even then I imagine it's trying to catch up to .NET (after all.. blu-ray players execute Java).. which can run on embedded systems https://nanoframework.net/
I listed some popular languages that web applications I happened to run dockerised are using. They are not arbitrary.
If you run normal web applications they often take many hundreds of megabytes if they are built with some popular languages that I happened to list off the top of my head. That is a fact.
Comparing that to cut down frameworks with many limitations meant for embedded devices isn't a valid comparison.
Any node server app will be ~50-100 MiB (because that's roughly the size of node binary + shared deps + some runtime state for your app). If you failed to optimize things correctly, and you're storing and working with lots of data in the node process itself, instead of it serving as a thin intermediary between http service and a database/other backend services, you may get spikes of memory use well above that, but that should be avoided in any case, for multiple reasons.
And most of this 50-100 MiB will be shared if you run multiple node services on the same machine the old way. So you can run 6 node app servers this way, and they'll consume eg. 150MiB of RAM total.
With docker, it's anyone guess how much running 6 node backend apps will consume, because it depends on how many things can be shared in RAM, and usually it will be nothing.
"just as well"? lmao sure i guess i could just manually set up the environment and have differences from what im hoping to use in productio
> 1GiB machine can run a lot of server software,
this is naive
it really depends if you're crapping out some basic web app versus doing something that's actually complicated and has a need for higher performance than synchronous web calls :)
in addition, my mq pays attention to memory pressure and tunes its flow control based on that. so i have a test harness that tests both conditions to ensure that some of my backoff logic works
> if RAM is not wasted on having duplicate OSes on one machine.
Yes, it's exactly how docker works if you use it for where it matters for a hobbyist - which is where you are installing random third-party apps/containers that you want to run on your SBC locally.
I don't know why people instantly forget the context of the discussion, when their favorite way of doing things gets threatened. :)
Context is hobbyists and SBC market (mostly various ARM boards). Maybe I'm weird, but I really don't care about minor differences between my arch linux workstation, and my arch linux arm SBCs, because 1) they're completely different architectures, so I can't avoid the differences anyway 2) it's a hobby, I have one instance at most of any service. 3) most hobbyist run services will not work with a shitton of data or have to handle 1000s of parallel clients
> Yes, it's exactly how docker works if you use it for where it matters for a hobbyist
What you described is exactly the opposite of how it works. There is no reasonable scenario in how that is how it works. In fact, what you're saying is opposite of the whole point of containers versus using a VM.
> when their favorite way of doing things gets threatened
No, it's when someone (like you) thinks they have an absolute answer without knowing the context.
And by the way, in my scenario, container overhead is in the range of under a hundred MiB total . The thing I'm working on HAPPENS to require a fair amount of RAM.
But you confidently asserted that "1GiB machine can run a lot of server software". And that's true for many people (like you), but not true for a lot of other people (like me).
> most hobbyist run services will not work with a shitton of data or have to handle 1000s of parallel clients
neither of these are true for me but you need to take a step back and maybe stop making absolute statements about what people are doing or working on :)
you dont get to define "where it matters" for a hobbyist
> which is where you are installing random third-party apps/containers that you want to run on your SBC locally
this is such a consoomer take. for those of us who actually build software, we have actual valid reasons for using it during development
> they're completely different architectures, so I can't avoid the differences anyway
ironically this is a side benefit modern containers are useful
i think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how containers work and why theyre useful for software development. based on your other posts in this thread only makes me more sure of that. im not saying containers/etc are a perfect solution or always the right solution, but your misconceptions are separate from that
No I don't have a fundamental misunderstanding. In the entire thread I'm talking about docker, not "containers" in general. You seem to have a misunderstanding apparently.
I've been working with "containers" since before docker existed, and I also wrote several applications that use basic technologies so called "docker containers" are based on in Linux. You can use these technologies (various namespaces, etc.) in a way that does not waste RAM. That will not happen for common docker use, where you don't control the apps and base OS completely. You can if you try hard make it efficient, but you have to have a lot of control. The moment you start pulling random dockerfiles from random sources, you'll be wasting colossal amounts of resources compared to just installing packages on your host OS, to share maximum amount of resources.
And for all these "let's have just a big static binary and put it into a container" containers, that don't really have/or need a real full OS userspace under them, there's barely any difference deployment wise from just running them without docker. In fact docker is just a very complicated additional duplicated layer in this case for what systemd does, that most people already have on their OS. So that's another RAM waste and additional overhead from what is now reduced to a service manager in this use case scenario.
> No I don't have a fundamental misunderstanding. In the entire thread I'm talking about docker, not "containers" in general. You seem to have a misunderstanding apparently.
i said modern containers. and you do have a FUNDAMENTAL MISUNDERSTANDING. you are repeating falsehoods throughout this entire thread.
> That will not happen for common docker use
again you are asserting a "common" use of software, when the people youre replying to are clearly using it for development
> where you don't control the apps and base OS completely
stopping saying "you" to me. id tell you to speak for yourself but you seem incapable of doing that
> And for all these "let's have just a big static binary and put it into a container" containers, that don't really have/or need a real full OS userspace under them, there's barely any difference deployment wise from just running them without docker.
ironically enough it does have differences, glaring big differences. like ironically the deployment differences are about the only reason to use docker in this situation
another stark example of you popping off with incorrect assertions. and yes there are reasons not to do use docker for this as well but it depends on multiple factors
> In fact docker is just a very complicated additional duplicated layer in this case for what systemd does, that most people already have on their OS. So that's another RAM waste and additional overhead from what is now reduced to a service manager in this use case scenario.
there are so many misconceptions in there asserted as if theyre the entire truth. yes people can use docker containers poorly but its not everyone.
> The moment you start pulling random dockerfiles from random sources, you'll be wasting colossal amounts of resources compared to just installing packages on your host OS, to share maximum amount of resources.
its a good thing that I'm not doing that! ive already stated that im using them to build software, not just "pulling random dockerfiles from random sources"
you are digging your heels in and you are now trying to assert a set of conditions and situation in which youre correct, even though youre dead wrong for the use cases that the people youre replying to are describing
you have repeated falsehoods as fact repeatedly and seem unable to adjust to people telling you "im not doing that thing youre complaining about"
frankly, i think youre out of your depth on this subject and youre trying to do anything you can justify your original claim that 1GiB is enough, or whatever
TLDR
feel free to have the last word, im sure youll have lots of them. maybe youll get lucky and a few will be correct. im exiting this conversation
Many distros (including Raspberry Pi OS) don't enable `CONFIG_FIREWIRE_OHCI` in the kernel, so support isn't built-in, unless you build your own kernel.
Right, that matches my understanding. After 2029, It'll stick around as long as it continues to compile. If it fails to compile it would get dropped instead of updated as there's no maintainer.
This was around 2020 or 2021. I had an old laptop with a firewire port which was already running Ubuntu. I couldn't make it work. That's when I found that the support was removed from the kernel, and that's what led me to Linux Mint. I bought a new SSD and installed Linux Mint, and I was able to import my video tapes with no further issue.
An Ubuntu support page says eth1394 has been removed from the kernel since version 2.6.22.
Edit: This was a VERY old laptop. I think it has a 32 bit processor. Maybe that confounded the issue.
> An Ubuntu support page says eth1394 has been removed from the kernel since version 2.6.22.
that doesn't really mean what you think it means, since they removed that module to replace it with a more standard module. and in addition, the presence or lack of eth1394 wouldn't affect a camera or fire interface in any meaningful way
Not a conspiracy, and I know the history—just a joke. The current branding sure looks like AGI if you're not looking closely (or maybe I just read too much hn)
Gemini does it but not in a clickbaity way. It basically asks, at the end "would you like to know more about this specific or that specific"?
Yes, there's some "growth hacking" bs, but prompting the user to ask more questions about details is a far distance from what oAI is doing. I agree it's all bad behavior, but in shades.
I found Gemini to keep asking the same follow-up questions regardless of my responses. In discussing a health topic, it repeatedly offered recipes for healthy snacks - 4 times, before I finally affirmatively said “no, I do not need snack recipes.” It dutifully stopped. Not quite clickbait, but it had very clearly decided where it wanted the conversation to go.
At least with Gemini, I found the trick is to add anything in any system instruction about a task list. Then the follow-up prompt will always be, do you want to add a task for that? Which is actually useful most of the time.
> many still saw the "metaverse" vision as inevitable; a clear trajectory for the future of the internet.
As a VR enthusiast, I beg to differ. Anyone who had spent a lot of time in the space knew that this was largely a hardware problem.
You need a lightweight, see-through head mounted display. It needs to be aware of local lighting conditions and does more than just room mapping, which means it needs a lot of compute power. It needs to have eye tracking (for minor perceptual angle drawing, at least), a high resolution (or light field) display. It needs to stay cool, and have a 6+ hour battery life (which is one working session). Oh, and people don't like any tethers. Or controllers. Which means extremely accurate hand tracking and integration with a keyboard/mouse. Price doesn't matter, as much as people think. AVP costs less today than a mid tier powerbook 25 years ago. But that also needs to come down.
Apple Vision Pro is the first VR/AR headset to come close, by the way. And even that is very far off. In fact, I'd blame that more for this shutdown than anything single other thing: it demonstrated that Meta's hardware labs were so fundamentally off for what they were trying to achieve that it basically rendered their entire investment useless.
> I'm convinced that the Japanese government is terrified of EVs because all the small and medium-sized businesses which support the Japanese auto industry will be absolutely gutted when vehicles contain drastically fewer parts.
For what it's worth, this theory is blown up by hydrogen based vehicles, which Japan has gone heavily in on. Yes, slightly more parts than an EV, but not a ton. And the drivetrain is electric.
It really shows the bias in Honda’s management here. They’ve also spent years trying to develop and promote their hydrogen fuel cell cars and it’s just as much of a failure as their EV division yet they aren’t axing that golden child.
That's a fundamental misunderstanding of why they're going in on hydrogen so hard - it's something they can generate domestically and without geopolitical implications.
If there is a war with china or in the middle east, hydrogen vehicles are somewhat immune to oil or rare earth spikes.
They will likely never roll out hydrogen power in any large capacity but the capability will be there if they need it
If we get into an actual shooting war with China, I don't think there's enough hydrogen generating facilities to make much of a difference. If maybe 20% of vehicles on the road were using hydrogen, maybe?
Considering how much money and effort both Toyota and Honda have poured into trying to kick start a hydrogen economy over the past decade and a half, and how much EV technology was evolved over the same time span, would it not make more sense to switch to the technology that actually is proven and actually has consumer demand for?
It's not like they're switching all that military hardware to hydrogen too.
Japan can't solve all of its energy woes, but it can ease it a lot by restarting all the nuclear reactors they shut down after Fukushima, and to be fair, they've been trying [0], but stuff breaks after not having been used in over a decade.
They can also generate electricity domestically. In fact, that is much, much, much, much easier then producing hydrogen.
Its an idiots version of geoplitics to bet on hydrogen just because you can produce it from electricity.
Because factually speaking nobody produces it from electricity, and its never competitive. So it would never be used by most people over natural gas produced hydrogen.
> hydrogen vehicles are somewhat immune to oil or rare earth spikes.
They would not be immune to rare earth anymore then EVs. In fact, it requires more complex supply chains an more exposure to more stuff.
> but the capability will be there if they need it
No it isn't. They do not have the capability to role it out. Producing a few prototype vehicles an a few fuel stations isn't really relevant to the question of can you produce 10 million of them, and fuel them reliably and cheaply. And Japan has no capability to do that.
Is there a place somewhere in the world where Hydrogen powered passenger vehicles are a success? I know that the one Hydrogen filling station here in Australia's Capital City has shut down after opening with great fanfare a few years ago. And the approximately 20 or so Hydrogen cars it supplied are no longer being used.
I just looked it up for Germany[0] and there were a whopping 3 (0.0%) new hydrogen fuel cell cars registered in Februrary 2026. Even LPG cars were more with 397 registered.
For comparison 21.9% were BEVs, 11.5% Plugin hybrids, ~51% pure petrol or non plug-in hybrid, and 14.8% Diesel.
They have not gone heavely in on hydrogen based vehicles. They have talked about it a lot, and given some subsidies, but nothing so major as to make any impact at all.
Also, they invested in in hydrogen internal combustion engines just as much.
I don't like Jesse Singal's work or his political positions (he fucking sucks!), but this is hardly antagonistic except to maybe a small group of terminally online posters who take posting too seriously.
Although, I guess that is the audience bluesky was targeting when they first started. So I guess I understand the criticism.
Also, it is a very ironic demonstration of the pancakes/waffles meme. Interjecting into an unrelated topic to ask the mods to ban someone you don't like is a tradition as old as dial up BBS. So I'm glad to see the torch is being carried forward to a younger generation.
I don't even think having Jesse Singal on the platform is the problem (like it or not, I believe that all beings must have the right to communicate); the problem here was the communication failure when communicating this decision to the userbase. They could have just reiterated their rules and left it at that; instead, they chose to mock their userbase, write them off as harassment, and banned users left and right, abusing their position in network to censor people at every layer of the protocol.
It's a CEO's personal account. CEOs do this on Twitter all the time without it becoming a techcrunch article.
Let's just be honest about what happened - the CEO of Bluesky gave a (still not proportionally as) absurd response to an extremely absurd harassment campaign. That's what this and the article intentionally obscure.
Again, this is never how the web was supposed to work, and it (BARELY) holding on to that is the real story.
Doing the pancakes/waffles thing in the thread about pancakes/waffles is so fucking on the nose and demonstrates a complete lack of self awareness.
> They could have just reiterated their rules and left it at that; instead, they chose to mock their userbase, write them off as harassment, and banned users left and right, abusing their position in network to censor people at every layer of the protocol.
The more I dig into it, the more your one-sided whinging falls apart. I agree they could have handled it somewhat better, but I have very little sympathy for the terminally online bullshit that I'm seeing coming from the banned users.
Anyways, I feel we're apart on this issue. Feel free to have the last word if you wish.
> Doing the pancakes/waffles thing in the thread about pancakes/waffles is so fucking on the nose
Wait what do you think “the pancakes/waffles thing” refers to? You posted 2 hours ago that you had never heard of it.
I can see that how it could be confusing because there’s “the pancakes/waffles thing” where Jay wrote about about people complaining to the CEO when the moderation team doesn’t respond as being equivalent to that meme, and then there’s “the pancakes/waffles thing” where Jay started posting pictures of pancakes and waffles as some sort of… joke or dunk? I never quite got the 4D comedy chess there.
It doesn’t seem like anybody is “doing the pancakes/waffles thing” in either case. Nobody is asking Jay, as CEO, to ban anyone in the thread about Jay not being the CEO anymore. And I don’t think I’ve seen anyone ironically posting metahumor pictures of pancakes.
The term has become so overused that definition creep now means that it could mean “anything that might bother Jay” in this context.
> Wait what do you think “the pancakes/waffles thing” refers to? You posted 2 hours ago that you had never heard of it.
Quote me where I said I've never heard of the pancake/waffles thing? Of course I've heard of it, it's been around for a decade or so.
> I can see that how it could be confusing because there’s “the pancakes/waffles thing” where Jay wrote about about people complaining to the CEO when the moderation team doesn’t respond as being equivalent to that meme, and then there’s “the pancakes/waffles thing” where Jay started posting pictures of pancakes and waffles as some sort of… joke or dunk? I never quite got the 4D comedy chess there. It doesn’t seem like anybody is “doing the pancakes/waffles thing” in either case. Nobody is asking Jay, as CEO, to ban anyone in the thread about Jay not being the CEO anymore. And I don’t think I’ve seen anyone ironically posting metahumor pictures of pancakes. The term has become so overused that definition creep now means that it could mean “anything that might bother Jay” in this context.
I want you to read this out loud, to yourself. Maybe you'll feel as insane as I did when I read it.
> Quote me where I said I've never heard of the pancake/waffles thing? Of course I've heard of it, it's been around for a decade or so.
Here is a link to your comment about not having seen it in the context of the discussion you are posting in. When people talk about the pancakes/waffle thing in this context they are not talking about a meme from several years before Bluesky existed but rather a specific event (which I have apparently failed to communicate to you).
> I want you to read this out loud, to yourself. Maybe you'll feel as insane as I did when I read it.
That seems unnecessarily hostile, especially given I was responding to this comment of yours.
> Doing the pancakes/waffles thing in the thread about pancakes/waffles is so fucking on the nose and demonstrates a complete lack of self awareness.
I was talking about the topic of the thread, you seem kind of focused on swearing and insulting people. My bad, I hadn’t seen your other posts and did not realize how much this subject has flustered you.
> When people talk about the pancakes/waffle thing in this context
That makes sense. The original meme was widespread and this is fairly niche.
> That seems unnecessarily hostile, especially given I was responding to this comment of yours.
No man, I really mean it. Maybe it's hostile, but also, people talking about this legitimately sound, I don't know... unhinged? Off? I am flustered, because of how ridiculous this all is to me. I'm serious.
Like, "the CEO of blue sky said waffles to me and it was a 4d comedy dunk!" or whatever. It's like a Ralph Wiggum quote. What the fuck?
So, I think this topic is at its end. But really, read aloud what you wrote. Seriously, try it, you might find it grounding.
It is ok if you just didn’t/don’t know what people were talking about, I hope you are doing well.
To put my point as simply as possible for someone that isn’t ‘terminally online’ and understands that ‘posting isn’t praxis’ but also uses those phrases unprompted: People have criticized Jay for getting Poster’s Madness because of a time when she, as an admin, appeared to respond to any criticism saying everybody else has Poster’s Madness.
im also one of those people who is struggling to understand why people seem so passionate. its a twitter clone.
i also dont know whats going on, although it is a obscure drama from a relatively small community
i think maybe that is this disconnect. that relatively small community is extremely important to you but many other people here lack similar footing. i dont think the hostility is warranted but i can feel myself furrowing my brow and asking out loud what is happening when i read some of the posts from bluesky users in this thread
i guess i am glad i never got big into twitter or bluesky or the attention economy
> Although, I guess that is the audience bluesky was targeting when they first started. So I guess I understand the criticism.
I was in the invite only cohort of Bluesky users and I don't really think so. I think what happened is after the election a bunch of very online, political news addicted anti-Musk folks migrated to Bluesky and created the current culture. Even though I'm pretty sure most folks on the network shared pretty much the same politics, the culture on the network changed completely within a few days of this.
The central complaint doesn't seem to be distaste, but rather the fact that he is uniquely privileged over other users, despite violating Bluesky's terms of service.[0]
The central complaint isn't "distaste" because you can't call for someone to be banned because of a "distaste".
"Jesse Singal has distributed private medical information on Bluesky without the consent of the patient" translates to publishing a quote from a patient included in a therapist's letter of support for hormones.
The problem in this situation is that the complaint itself as well as the whole drama surrounding the person is an exercise of harassment towards Singal. In this context, I don't think that saying "waffles" is out of order. I'm not sure of what else can be done about crybullying, since by its very nature innocent bystanders would be surely affected if action was taken against those complaining.
>“Don’t use Bluesky Social to break the law or cause harm to others,”
Is this, quoted in the change.org, the relevant line?
The law was not broken, it is also fairly evident that the intention was not to "cause harm to others", nor has any harm has seemingly come upon the patient for this (it requires a huge stretch of imagination to think of a case in which it could)
In my opinion, inappropriately leaked information should probably still be considered private, even if it was made publicly accessible. But even if not, Singal says the same leaker directly contacted him with a new leak, which he also published.
> In my opinion, inappropriately leaked information should probably be considered private.
How is that relevant to BSky's terms of service? The information was public and did not identify the person.
> But even if not, Singal says the same leaker directly contacted him with a new leak, which he also published.
I notice that you didn't say whether this new leak was private information, or whether it was also already public knowledge, or whether it in any way identified a person.
I think this entire thread has run its course; if it's not this detail, it'll be another, as a few others have already moved goalposts further down the discussion than the ones you're setting here.
But if you wish to sate personal curiosity, it is in his Substack, linked from the first link I posted, which was itself from the link posted by its GP.
The only thing that seems remotely related to your claims is this:
When the office of Missouri Attorney General Andrew Bailey began an investigation, [Reed] said she handed over the spreadsheet, after scrubbing out the personally identifying information that could spark HIPAA problems. She shared a copy of it with me as well — it contains 17 alleged detransitioners or desisters and 60 allegedly worrisome cases.
What's your problem with what happened exactly? Is it your position that your "private information" cannot be used, ever, to expose what some see as a medical scandal, even though it cannot identify you or in any way be associated with you? What does "private" even mean to you if sharing this dataset did not violate HIPAA?
> In my opinion, inappropriately leaked information should probably still be considered private.
I'd love to see the limitations of this opinion you definitely hold honestly and without favor.
You started by posting a change.org petition that links to a deleted post - in other words an "appeal to petition" that has no evidence. Now you are suggesting there is another leak that was published (presumably not mentioned in this petition?) that also has no evidence. Where is the evidence?
Everything from an actual search engine request for these posts (which to be clear, are deleted) suggests that these are anonymized and public, and contain no identifying information.
1. People want him banned for any and no reason, so this is a post-hoc justification. The same people (let's be real, likely including you) wanted Singal banned the second he made his account.
2. This change.org petition, despite proving how many uninformed people will blindly click agree on a petition, proves nothing about how Singal broke literally any rule anywhere, in law or on Bluesky.
There aren't really any, the user you're replying to is just disappointed the campaign to ban users for no (on platform, or really any) reason was not successful.
I don't care about the specific situation either way; What I am observant of is how the core team has handled their userbase and lack of protocol robustness.
> The likelihood of any legal restriction was probably close to zero - it’s only from today’s era of hyper-regulation that we might even imagine something like that.
Normally I'd agree with a statement like this. Except this is a very specific case.
I use the 16GB SKU to host a bunch of containers and some light debugging tools, and the power usage that sips at idle will probably pay for the whole board over my previous home server, within about 5 years.
reply