Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | hyperhello's commentslogin

My feeling is that AI is not real coding; it is coding-adjacent. Project Management, Sales, Marketing, Writing Books About KanBan, AI Programming, User Interface Design, Installing Routers are coding-adjacent. AI is not real coding any more than The Sims is homemaking. You can use AI and hang with the tech guys and get your check but you are going to be treading water and trying to be liked personally to stay where you are. No question it's a job, but no, it's not coding.

My thinking is that high level languages like C aren't real coding. If you don't even know what ISA the software will be run on, then you need to get the fuck off my lawn!

Attitude as old as time itself.


Yes, "An LLM is just a new higher level programming language", sure. A new programming language with no tractable guarantees about the behavior of any particular program, including in practice no guarantees that the same source code (in this new programming language) will reliably produce the same behavior. This is very different from traditional programming languages and how we can reason about them.

(Yes, one can write C programs with undefined behavior, but C does also have many well-defined properties which allow people to reason about well-defined C programs logically reliably.)


It used to be that old farts made a big deal out of knowing the ins and outs of assembly programming and sneered at the kids who only knew "high level" languages like C, why, those damn kids didn't even understand the machine code their compilers emitted, didn't even know or care that it was so obviously suboptimal.

Really, your attitude is not new. Including even your "this is why it's different this time", its just a mirror reflecting the past.


(And the behavior of any given C implementation is completely defined.)

You mock, but not very persuasively. You seem to be relying on a silly idea you don't even believe in: that someone, once, made fun of C programming.

I can't speak personally to what it was like to be a C developer in the early days of that language, but when I started out as a Ruby on Rails developer over a decade ago I was definitely told by some people that it didn't count as 'real programing' because of how much was abstracted away by the framework.

I have some bad news for you

>AI is not real coding any more than The Sims is homemaking.

Your analogy is bad. The programmer and the AI both produce working code. The other poster's response was correct.


I believe that someone can get it to produce working code. Whenever I press the button though, I'm not getting great results.

The AI does not, in fact, produce working code.

Mocking? I'm quoting exactly the sort of thing that used to be said in earnest in the 80s and 90s. What you're doing now is exactly the same thing, there's no difference at all. Its the same reaction borne from the same old man instinct to bitch about the kids going soft. Yawn.

Both Algol and Lisp were from the 60s. I think programmers and computers scientists were already acquainted with high level programming languages enough to not equate using C as going soft.

Also software was always about domain knowledge and formal reasoning. Coding is just notation. Someone may like paper and pen, and someone may like a typewriter, but ultimately it’s the writing that matters. Correctness of a program does not depends on the language (and the cpu only manipulate electric flow).

I argue against AI because most of its users don’t care about the correctness of their code. They just want to produce lots of it (the resurgence of the flawed LoC metric as a badge of honor).


> Both Algol and Lisp were from the 60s. I think programmers and computers scientists were already acquainted with high level programming languages enough to not equate using C as going soft

Most programmers didn't have access to anything so fancy as those, in fact most programmers considered access to a C compiler to be an extravagant flex well into the 80s. By the 90s they were well available and you had a new generation of programmers that started out with C, encountering older programmers who started out writing assembly for their z80s, the latter of whole were constantly sneering at kids going soft.

Starting when I was about 10, I learned BASIC (not a real language, I was constantly told), z80, then C (a "high level" language) for the m68k. I encountered all of the attitudes I know see ITT being thrown at programmers using coding agents. Hell, I would bet money on some of those exact same old farts still lurking IRC channels, occasionally waking up like Rip Van Winkle to grumble about kids taking old ubiquitous technology for granted now.


> I argue against AI because most of its users don’t care about the correctness of their code.

This is remarkably sloppy for someone who codes. No facts, just opinion, claimed with confidence.


> No facts, just opinion, claimed with confidence

Strong opinions, loosely held.

What I’ve seen seems to confirm that opinion, so I’m still holding on to it.


> Strong opinions, loosely held.

Yes doctor, but enough about my stool.


Right? Some of us used to read hex digits off printed paper dumps to debug mainframe memory (like me), but we can be excited about AI and embrace it, too.

From my perspective, knowing how it gets down to machine code makes it more useful and easier to control, but that doesn't mean I want to stop writing English now that we can.


I think it should be called dice-coding, not vibe-coding. You roll the LLM dice, and sometimes it comes with the right looking program on the top.

Since the dice is loaded heavily, this happens quite often. This makes people think that the dice can program.


Sorry to see you're getting mocked. I hate both the (current) low quality and the exploitation aspects of AI more than anyone. However, I don't understand your post. What is real coding according to you?

Republicans simply don’t use words the same way others do. If you say you like flowers in the garden you mean they should be there. If they say they like flowers in the garden, they mean they would like to be paid to control whether they are there.

[flagged]


[flagged]


We’re not that deep. One is bad enough. Biden was not senile or a pedophile. That was an obvious attempt to rub smear off of Trump. We do comprehend the existence of propaganda, it’s just that we can’t do anything about it anymore than you can.

> two senile pedophiles as president in sequnce

two? Who was the one other than Trump? (Which we don't even know that one for sure. We just know he protects them from prosecution)


You can either use the stack in an intuitive way, or you can change the tree directly in a somewhat less intuitive way without recursion. Essentially either DF or BF. I don’t see how it matters much anymore with stacks that grow automatically, but it’s good to understand.

Where the hell is the open source app that downloads all your google stuff? There is a huge opportunity to be a hero.

Why do you need an app?

https://takeout.google.com/


I have been trying to do takeout periodically for 6 months. All manner of combinations and different sets of data.

I'm probably at 20 attempts and everyone single one has failed...


Takeout always fails for me, with ~11TB of data in Google Drive.

Why would you use takeout to download Google Drive contents when syncing to your local computer is its entire purpose?

Because the Google drive desktop app crashes as well :)

That is odd I can't remember it ever crashing on me.

I long ago used arq backup with google drive as a target, and there’s something like 1-10 million little chunk files in that directory so it’s probably that…

Google Drive files you can sync to local disk via the Windows or Mac app.

Fails!

Then your data is gone.

Timelinize[0] has been at this for awhile on several platforms.

[0] https://timelinize.com/


Google Takeout[0] seems to have basically everything selected by default, so I don't see a need for another tool.

[0] https://takeout.google.com/


Most people who use Google services don't know about this or simply do not have bare minimum technical knowledge required to set this up or even know why they would need to do backups

It doesn't require any technical expertise to set up--you click a button--unless you want to import into something else. I agree it should be more advertised, but I don't see how an open source tool would require less technical knowledge or be better known.

People will be flagging ai slop pretty soon, I think

Money is the only thing that matters. Money is freedom. Owning freely. Spending freely

Capitalism needs money.

Where did you get the information in the table? I’m aware there are many open sources, I’m asking where you copied from.

Where *ClaudeCode copied from

It’s a neural network. You can see the macro pretending to be real aspects because our brain is neural too. Interesting, but not thinking.

I’m impressed the author was able to learn and handle all the UI while blind. The corner of “just works” computing they live in could be beyond what I’ve ever experienced.

it's fiction (seemingly everything is on the site?). maybe the title should reflect that

It's tagged "nonfiction" just below the title.

It's tagged nonfiction.

Apparently we have a case of discerning truth by whether we’re downvoting someone saying it’s fiction.

Someone should make a site that just compiles the correct answers to these kinds of questions.

100%

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: