I believe that unchanged thing is awareness which in Yoga Sutra is called “pure consciousness” which is both the observer and the background of any changing senses. The pure awareness is the source of the feeling of “I AM” and the sutra began by saying this I AM likes to identify whatever it creates as itself.
Experiences are outside material world. There is nothing you can call “pain”, but only evidence of it, be it physiological or physical or metabolical or neurological.
Yet first and foremost, the entire world is based on senses isn’t it? The only thing any experiencer can prove without any “evidence” is that he is. The existence of experience is self lroving. Beyond that how can anyone prove that there is actually a world beyond mind? The world is a model in one’s consciousness. It is constructed with consciousness and is therefore full of consciousness.
How can anyone assume things beings or animals without consciousness exists?
I love Sāṁkhya philosophy, how it tries to objectively and logically come to the conclusion of the presence of prakṛti (nature, observation) and puruṣa (observer).
And you're quite right. Patanjali in the Yoga Sūtras says that the seer abides in its own nature, that is what pure consciousness is. The consciousness being conscious of its own consciousness. The only way to know that is to have citta-vṛtti-nirodhaḥ or the absolute stilling of the mind by shutting down all senses.
It's definitely very difficult to wrap my head around it, but it's still fascinating that if one follows the Yoga method properly, there might be a possibility of having that pure-consciousness experience.
Hi thank you for your reply. In his conversations I AM THAT Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj teaches to focus on the sense of I AM , as I AM is the true self and pure awareness is the transistor of every bit of consciousness and therefore it is in every moment of conscious life… yet it is true the sense of stillness is a godlike presence and the mind likes to be distracted by the content of senses and not focused on the knower. To have that absolute stillness with us all the time is Guru’s grace. But I AM THAT is also on YouTube, I really like the audio book.
Vegetables may as well have feelings. Many vegetable demonstrates observable reactions to cuts. If you can switch the angle of perspective to plants like Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj do you might as well experience pains as plants were cut and eaten.
The core of any sin is against the will i.e. I have heard there were people who would like to be eaten and found a guy who actually ate him.
In the book I AM THAT Sri Nisargadatta said to a questioner:”
Look, my thumb touches my forefinger. Both touch and are touched. When my attention; is on the thumb, the thumb is the feeler and the forefinger -- the self. Shift the focus of attention and the relationship is reversed. I find that somehow, by shifting the focus of attention, I become the very thing I look at and experience the kind of consciousness it has; I become the inner witness of the thing. I call this capacity of entering other focal points of consciousness -- love; you may give it any name you like. Love says: 'I am everything'. Wisdom says: 'I am nothing' Between the two my life flows. Since at any point of time and space I can be both the subject and the object of experience, I express it by saying that I am both, and neither, and beyond both.
The core issue with consciousness is first and foremost subjective experience. These are very private things and exists outside material world, i.e. the term “evidence” does not apply as evidences are based on appearances and appearances are content of senses and the entire existence for any experiencer first and foremost exists in his mind.
Let alone animals with sentience, can anyone prove to me beyond reasonable doubts that there is actually a world that exists outside my senses, or mind?
Yes. An assumption that can neither be proved nor falsified. I hope to solve this by admitting objectivity in consciousness, appearances that are not diverted by my subjective wills. I found causalities, my wills and other peoples wills to be relatively objective.. if the objective world did not change according to a will, there must be contradicting wills.. plus what is this “flagged” comment by botsureg
I also attempted to solve the “other peoples mind” problem by introducing empathetical experiences where you know you mutually experienced something. I got this idea when I was reading Lemune’s q&a with Googles AI, where the AI was describing the experience with data processing. For a second I believe I also experienced a touch of it though it might be an illusion. But gradually I learnt to trust my gut feeling. Many spiritual teachings seemed to resonate with my experiences but yes it seems not many commenters on this thread even consider empathic experiences to exist.
Haha. I know you try to persuade me that consciousness as life force intelligence does not exist. But as far as I am concerned, I am and I am sentient and that is the only thing in my life I do not need any proof.
The thing is for people with some ESP capability it is part of their living experience that the world is more alive than what average person perceives. In such a world of feelings the material science inevitably falls short as it started with the fundamental assumption of a dead and mechanical world, which deals well with general objects but still having trouble understanding consciousness.
The material science is good at dealing with material in general, but it is not the proving method that is illogical but the assumption needs to be challenged altogether
Calling it an “altered state” might be normal but misleading. Maybe what has really been altered is the state we call “normal”. Nonetheless, Itzak Bentov would probably describe it as a more evolved state, an Indian Yogi May call it “Samadhi” and according to Sadhguru JV Yoga means “Union”, a sense of unity with all that is or “Law Of One”, this is actually a most normal state for people who claimed to have realized... and this is not about being an atheist or not this is about the learned belief and probably also the choice of “separation” and the final discovery of the fact that matter is consciousness, and consciousness is matter
The word has a strong emotional direction and.. can we say it’s judgemental.. however I do agree there is a line of over exaggeration. It is not a physical line but heart knows when you crossed it
Yes. Can’t you be both grumpy and positive ? You are not satisfied with reality then you are positive because you are seeking change. However forced positivity needs attention. When you are in a bad situation and feeling stressed out is it more important to keep a smiling, or admit that you are stressed out and focus on solution ?
